Richard Chinn [MSFT]
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:15 am Post subject:
Re: DFS Domain Root question |
|
|
First, let me state clearly that I am *not* recommending that you go
beyond FRS test limits. You should be aware of a few things regarding
those limits.
1) FRS is fairly sensitive to the number of files and folders. Going
far beyond the recommended limit will generally cause a lot of pain.
When the limits are exceeded, it is possible for FRS to get into a
state where it's replicating fine, but should you ever need to perform
disaster recovery, it's impossible to bring it back.
If you decide to go beyond the scalability test limits, you must fully
test disaster recovery procedures to ensure they work properly.
2) The amount of data FRS has is an important factor mainly because
FRS replicates entire files. If you have a 500 MB file and make a
single 1 byte change to the file, FRS will replicate the entire 500 MB
file. "Accidents" where lots of files get touched with effectively no
changes cause a flurry of replication activity and all you can do is
to wait for things to settle down. Over slow links, this is even more
painful.
Replicating entire files can cause problems if your connection
schedules are too short. FRS doesn't resume a file download from a
partner if the connection gets cut. This means that if you have large
files that are in the middle of replication, and the connection
schedule closes, that file download will fail. The download will be
retried when the connection opens again, but it will start from the
beginning. Obviously if you are transferring the last few KB of a 500
MB file, this will not be good.
--Richard
Please post FRS related questions to
microsoft.public.windows.server.dfs_frs and prefix the subject line
with "FRS:" to make it easier to spot. Note that FRS is used to
replicate SYSVOL on domain controllers and DFS root and link targets.
For additional FRS resources, please visit
http://www.microsoft.com/frs.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:57:00 -0700, "John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote:
| Quote: | super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it can
only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to replicate is
51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did have another
200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to replicate as
well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ebIwqibzEHA.4004@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at
the KB article (at the bottom of the following link:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:O3GzJWbzEHA.4004@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there
any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember
reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting
these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
Package:
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:u8A%239ObzEHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:uVcG0BZzEHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at
all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%235VDC4YzEHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link referral,
and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:%23Z2FvuQzEHA.924@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:epHm9CQzEHA.3836@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes
for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:OIspqgOzEHA.1192@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:eOVSCWOzEHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:ueYQ9tNzEHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only
be available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over
the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
|
|
|
John Smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:43 am Post subject:
Re: DFS Domain Root question |
|
|
very helpful info thank you so much.. I think I will find another way to
copy the larger files... Also didn't know about the files cutting off like
that I thought they would resume but that's helpful info that I haven't seen
in any of the docs...
"Richard Chinn [MSFT]" <rchinn@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:dv57q0hp0otak1udi80hn6r7j15i20avfj@4ax.com...
| Quote: | First, let me state clearly that I am *not* recommending that you go
beyond FRS test limits. You should be aware of a few things regarding
those limits.
1) FRS is fairly sensitive to the number of files and folders. Going
far beyond the recommended limit will generally cause a lot of pain.
When the limits are exceeded, it is possible for FRS to get into a
state where it's replicating fine, but should you ever need to perform
disaster recovery, it's impossible to bring it back.
If you decide to go beyond the scalability test limits, you must fully
test disaster recovery procedures to ensure they work properly.
2) The amount of data FRS has is an important factor mainly because
FRS replicates entire files. If you have a 500 MB file and make a
single 1 byte change to the file, FRS will replicate the entire 500 MB
file. "Accidents" where lots of files get touched with effectively no
changes cause a flurry of replication activity and all you can do is
to wait for things to settle down. Over slow links, this is even more
painful.
Replicating entire files can cause problems if your connection
schedules are too short. FRS doesn't resume a file download from a
partner if the connection gets cut. This means that if you have large
files that are in the middle of replication, and the connection
schedule closes, that file download will fail. The download will be
retried when the connection opens again, but it will start from the
beginning. Obviously if you are transferring the last few KB of a 500
MB file, this will not be good.
--Richard
Please post FRS related questions to
microsoft.public.windows.server.dfs_frs and prefix the subject line
with "FRS:" to make it easier to spot. Note that FRS is used to
replicate SYSVOL on domain controllers and DFS root and link targets.
For additional FRS resources, please visit
http://www.microsoft.com/frs.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:57:00 -0700, "John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote:
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it
can
only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to replicate
is
51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did have another
200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to replicate as
well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ebIwqibzEHA.4004@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no
idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at
the KB article (at the bottom of the following link:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and
"Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:O3GzJWbzEHA.4004@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is
there
any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember
reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting
these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
Package:
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:u8A%239ObzEHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and
a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:uVcG0BZzEHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both
sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users
only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1
at
all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in
site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%235VDC4YzEHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option
to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link
referral,
and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:%23Z2FvuQzEHA.924@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target"..
if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:epHm9CQzEHA.3836@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures
(link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need
for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how
a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the
DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server
processes
for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no
rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:OIspqgOzEHA.1192@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just
have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's
site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to
get
the DFS root tree?
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <jillz@online.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:eOVSCWOzEHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites.
Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
"John Smith" <na@na.com> wrote in message
news:ueYQ9tNzEHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a
SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only
be available to the site they are located in. This seams
straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1
to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting
over
the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
|
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