| Author |
Message |
Tudor Cristea
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:
Three questions |
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I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to use volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities to mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation would be more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating system level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this option is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices that can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea |
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John Toner [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
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Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation would be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices that can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea |
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| Back to top |
|
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Tudor Cristea
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
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|
When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation would be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices that can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Toner [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
|
|
Ok, I think you should read through the following:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/techref/en-us/w2k3tr_vss_how.asp
VSS is available for any disk seen by the OS. VSS is not qualified for
specific hardware vendors, though certain hardware (and application) vendors
do have VSS providers specific to their storage.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E5A31118-15F8-4916-891D-E39EC15F3D3F@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same
denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking
about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation would
be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating
system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this
option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices that
can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tudor Cristea
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:05 am Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
|
|
Can one have shadow copies enable of internal disks on different computers?
After reading the articles under the provided link, looks that would be
possible. When I'm trying it on my two nodes cluster the only thing I could
do is to enable the shadow copying between two internal disks on the same
computer. I'll be interested to have shadow copies between disks located on
different computers.
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | Ok, I think you should read through the following:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/techref/en-us/w2k3tr_vss_how.asp
VSS is available for any disk seen by the OS. VSS is not qualified for
specific hardware vendors, though certain hardware (and application) vendors
do have VSS providers specific to their storage.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E5A31118-15F8-4916-891D-E39EC15F3D3F@microsoft.com...
When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same
denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking
about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation would
be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating
system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this
option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices that
can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Toner [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
|
|
I believe that it does not allow the shadow copy "storage area" to be
located on a remote location. The target has to be seen as a local volume on
the host, as far as I can tell. I've tried setting this up using a network
share or UNC path, but this does not appear to work.
It is possible to place the target area on a SAN device and then snap off a
mirror of the SAN device (assuming your hardware is capable of this).
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2677D203-7931-4278-832D-CE3EFC1F2146@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | Can one have shadow copies enable of internal disks on different
computers?
After reading the articles under the provided link, looks that would be
possible. When I'm trying it on my two nodes cluster the only thing I
could
do is to enable the shadow copying between two internal disks on the same
computer. I'll be interested to have shadow copies between disks located
on
different computers.
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Ok, I think you should read through the following:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/techref/en-us/w2k3tr_vss_how.asp
VSS is available for any disk seen by the OS. VSS is not qualified for
specific hardware vendors, though certain hardware (and application)
vendors
do have VSS providers specific to their storage.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:E5A31118-15F8-4916-891D-E39EC15F3D3F@microsoft.com...
When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume
Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same
denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to
use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking
about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities
to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation
would
be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating
system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this
option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices
that
can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tudor Cristea
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
|
|
This is my experience too. Is this by design? If so, what can one use to keep
synchronised internal disks on Windows 2003?
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | I believe that it does not allow the shadow copy "storage area" to be
located on a remote location. The target has to be seen as a local volume on
the host, as far as I can tell. I've tried setting this up using a network
share or UNC path, but this does not appear to work.
It is possible to place the target area on a SAN device and then snap off a
mirror of the SAN device (assuming your hardware is capable of this).
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2677D203-7931-4278-832D-CE3EFC1F2146@microsoft.com...
Can one have shadow copies enable of internal disks on different
computers?
After reading the articles under the provided link, looks that would be
possible. When I'm trying it on my two nodes cluster the only thing I
could
do is to enable the shadow copying between two internal disks on the same
computer. I'll be interested to have shadow copies between disks located
on
different computers.
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Ok, I think you should read through the following:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/techref/en-us/w2k3tr_vss_how.asp
VSS is available for any disk seen by the OS. VSS is not qualified for
specific hardware vendors, though certain hardware (and application)
vendors
do have VSS providers specific to their storage.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:E5A31118-15F8-4916-891D-E39EC15F3D3F@microsoft.com...
When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume
Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same
denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother to
use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when talking
about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better possibilities
to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation
would
be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the operating
system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows this
option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices
that
can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Toner [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Three questions |
|
|
I believe that this is by design. It keep the internal disks sync'd, you'd
need a hardware solution (that utilizes a VSS requestor) or some other 3rd
party solution.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0825D105-7F8B-427F-AD15-D42FD8187973@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | This is my experience too. Is this by design? If so, what can one use to
keep
synchronised internal disks on Windows 2003?
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
I believe that it does not allow the shadow copy "storage area" to be
located on a remote location. The target has to be seen as a local
volume on
the host, as far as I can tell. I've tried setting this up using a
network
share or UNC path, but this does not appear to work.
It is possible to place the target area on a SAN device and then snap
off a
mirror of the SAN device (assuming your hardware is capable of this).
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:2677D203-7931-4278-832D-CE3EFC1F2146@microsoft.com...
Can one have shadow copies enable of internal disks on different
computers?
After reading the articles under the provided link, looks that would
be
possible. When I'm trying it on my two nodes cluster the only thing I
could
do is to enable the shadow copying between two internal disks on the
same
computer. I'll be interested to have shadow copies between disks
located
on
different computers.
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Ok, I think you should read through the following:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/techref/en-us/w2k3tr_vss_how.asp
VSS is available for any disk seen by the OS. VSS is not qualified
for
specific hardware vendors, though certain hardware (and application)
vendors
do have VSS providers specific to their storage.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <TudorCristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:E5A31118-15F8-4916-891D-E39EC15F3D3F@microsoft.com...
When I refer to "volume shadowing" is mean what is called "Volume
Shadow
Copy" in the Windows 2003 documentation.
RAID shadowing is customary called mirroring and I use the same
denomination.
"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:
Tudor,
What do you mean by "shadowing"? Do you mean RAID1 mirroring?
Regards,
John
"Tudor Cristea" <Tudor Cristea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in
message
news:0D1B7A94-76C6-44C8-9618-90989466F9D5@microsoft.com...
I have three questions about Windows clustering.
First question I have is a rather philosophical one:
Having some attached storage device, why would one even bother
to
use
volume
shadowing at the operating system level? Most of us, when
talking
about
attached storage, think of SAN. There are far better
possibilities
to
mirror
disks, both within and across controllers, while the operation
would
be
more
efficient than shadowing at OS level. Shadowing at the
operating
system
level
would make sense for internal disks, e.g. OpenVMS. In Windows
this
option
is
not, however, available, which leads to the second question:
Why? Would quite interesting to have shadowing of internal
disks.
Third question: Is it there a list of attached storage devices
that
can be
used for volume shadowing for Windows 2003 Enterprise?
Best regards,
Tudor Cristea
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