| Author |
Message |
Steve
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject:
Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Anyone know if it's possible to use Veritas or EMC Geo Clustering on the
backend? |
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Bob Christian
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:48 am Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Veritas - I talked to a Veritas VCS consultant about this in late
December/Early January. He had not done this yet and did not know of anyone
that had. Though he was quick to tout the benefits of Veritas VCS and SQL
server. You may want to check with your Veritas rep. They may see a demand
for this and make an install for this.
EMC/Legato AAM - The last time I checked they had not planned anything, but
one of their techs said that LCS 2003 may be possible.
GeoCluster (non-EMC product)... This falls into the "If you can't say
something nice...don't say it at all" category with me. I haven't touched
their product in years.
Bob
"Steve" <Steve@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:828039FB-07F8-43D1-BB21-4801BC723466@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | Anyone know if it's possible to use Veritas or EMC Geo Clustering on the
backend? |
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Thomas Wenzl [MVP]
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Hi Bob,
how are you doing?
Bob Christian wrote:
| Quote: | EMC/Legato AAM - The last time I checked they had not planned
anything, but one of their techs said that LCS 2003 may be possible.
|
I'm not sure, I don't believe that for LCS2003/LCS2005 SE,
due to the way these editions store data, etc. LCS2005 is the
only edition that supports a clustered environment by design.
Would be interesting if anyone got it working with LCS2003/LCS2005
SE, though?
| Quote: | GeoCluster (non-EMC product)... This falls into the "If you can't say
something nice...don't say it at all" category with me.
|
*ggg*
Regards
--
Thomas Wenzl [MVP for Live Communications Server]
Share what you know, learn what you don't!
(Deja/Google) |
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Steve
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Bob and Thomas,
Thank you for the information!
I've followed this forum recently because our company is deploying LCS 2005
and the answer's you've provided throughout the forum have been a great
source of knowledge for me - Thank you.
Our "shop" uses other EMC products (Exchange 2003 in a geographically
dispersed structure) but we are still waiting for information from them if
LCS 2005 EE is geographically cluster capable. :(
Our plan to deploy LCS 2005 is split in two phases
phase 1 is to deploy LCS 2005 SE (single server) to 100 clients (WM 5.1 by
means of GPO with rtcclient.adm template) for initial useage. (Completed)
Phase 2 is to deplay LCS 2005 EE - three front end servers supported by F5
3DNS and two BE LCS servers in active/passive cluster.
However, as you can tell from my questions the LCS 2005 EE BE portion raises
some issues. Our requirements for new product deployment is that they be
"redundant" - we define this as 1) Is it Geo cluster capable; from your
answers and other info it looks "possible" but not done yet. 2) if not geo
cluster than local cluster capable (which we know it is).
The other side of the issue is the SQL piece (Tom you helped point that out
in my post on the same day as this one). We have an Enterpise SQL EMC geo
cluster that just went up and we will be pointing the LCS 2005 BE servers to
two databases (user and archive) on this Virtual SQL 2000 cluster.
I just wasn't sure if the actual SQL servers need LCS 2005 binary/app files
on them or as it sounds you just install your BE servers with the MSMQ, IM
Archiving Service and point the system to the external databases.
"Thomas Wenzl [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Bob,
how are you doing?
Bob Christian wrote:
EMC/Legato AAM - The last time I checked they had not planned
anything, but one of their techs said that LCS 2003 may be possible.
I'm not sure, I don't believe that for LCS2003/LCS2005 SE,
due to the way these editions store data, etc. LCS2005 is the
only edition that supports a clustered environment by design.
Would be interesting if anyone got it working with LCS2003/LCS2005
SE, though?
GeoCluster (non-EMC product)... This falls into the "If you can't say
something nice...don't say it at all" category with me.
*ggg*
Regards
--
Thomas Wenzl [MVP for Live Communications Server]
Share what you know, learn what you don't!
(Deja/Google)
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Thomas Wenzl [MVP]
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Hello Steve,
Steve wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you for the information!
I've followed this forum recently because our company is deploying
LCS 2005 and the answer's you've provided throughout the forum have
been a great source of knowledge for me - Thank you.
|
thank you, glad that we were able to help.
[...]
| Quote: | The other side of the issue is the SQL piece (Tom you helped point
that out in my post on the same day as this one). We have an
Enterpise SQL EMC geo cluster that just went up and we will be
pointing the LCS 2005 BE servers to two databases (user and archive)
on this Virtual SQL 2000 cluster.
|
will you run any other databases than the RTC databases on it?
I personally don't see any major problems in doing so at the
moment. But there might be interferences from other applications
that are also using that SQL cluster - especially when the
active node experiences any problems, so that the passive node
has to take over.
Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test that scenario myself, yet.
Maybe anyone else is running LCS2005 EE in an environment similar
to yours and can add a comment from a practical point of view.
Please also review the clustering sections in LCS2005 Planning Guide
and Enterprise Edition Deployment Guide - if you haven't done, yet.
| Quote: | I just wasn't sure if the actual SQL servers need LCS 2005 binary/app
files on them
[...] |
the main logic on the SQL Server Back-End servers is implemented
using stored procedures and stuff like that, which are created when
the RTC databases are being set up.
Let us know what answer you got from EMC.
Regards
--
Thomas Wenzl [MVP for Live Communications Server]
Share what you know, learn what you don't!
(Deja/Google) |
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Bob Christian
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:46 am Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
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Thanks, Steve.
Thomas helped me out in the beginning. Thomas, it is always good to see you
and your input.
Answers (thoughts, really) inline.
It will be interesting to see what the vendors say.
"Steve" <Steve@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:48874C58-7BC3-4438-8DDC-5D013E9452CB@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | Bob and Thomas,
Thank you for the information!
I've followed this forum recently because our company is deploying LCS
2005
and the answer's you've provided throughout the forum have been a great
source of knowledge for me - Thank you.
Our "shop" uses other EMC products (Exchange 2003 in a geographically
dispersed structure) but we are still waiting for information from them if
LCS 2005 EE is geographically cluster capable. :(
|
EMC (Legato AAM) has been great for local failover of Exchange, from what I
have seen. Veritas (VCS and VVR) have been flat-out amazing. Microsoft's
abilities are well known, but doing a stretch cluster with their product
takes some work, a lot of bandwidth, and a lot of hardware.
| Quote: | Our plan to deploy LCS 2005 is split in two phases
phase 1 is to deploy LCS 2005 SE (single server) to 100 clients (WM 5.1 by
means of GPO with rtcclient.adm template) for initial useage. (Completed)
Phase 2 is to deplay LCS 2005 EE - three front end servers supported by F5
3DNS and two BE LCS servers in active/passive cluster.
|
That is a good plan. Eventually you may see a phase 3, opening external
connectivity. F5 will support, fortunately, will support access proxies as
well.
| Quote: | However, as you can tell from my questions the LCS 2005 EE BE portion
raises
some issues. Our requirements for new product deployment is that they be
"redundant" - we define this as 1) Is it Geo cluster capable; from your
answers and other info it looks "possible" but not done yet. 2) if not geo
cluster than local cluster capable (which we know it is).
|
Technically I did not comment on Geo cluster...but that was in reference to
GeoCluster, from NSISoftware. Geographically dispersed clusters, or
"Stretch" clusters, from EMC and Veritas are good for what they are designed
for. They both have good and bad points. NSI kind of took the corner on
the GeoCluster semantics.
EMCs (Legato AAM) is not bad, but Veritas is the cat's meow. Like all,
opinions exist as to who is better, who has better sales people, and who has
better support. The latter is the key...you need to talk to support to find
out if they support the product on their cluster, and if it is covered under
the contract.
You may very well find that EMC and Veritas will not support a LCS cluster
on their product. You may also find that they are considering betas for
LCS. However, the downside is that the only product that Microsoft will
support clustered LCS backends on is MS Cluster services. Veritas will
allow you to type in "hastop" to unload the cluster bits.
For Exchange, EMC's Legato AAM requires you to install Exchange near
identical on both boxes, configure a box, fail it over, configure that box,
fail it back. It does not present a virtual server. Veritas has a Exchange
DR style setup and presents a single Exchange Virtual Server. I am not sure
how the SQL solutions work, outside of what the consultants have told me.
Both products work well. In regards to EMC, they work well on updated EMC
hardware.
| Quote: | The other side of the issue is the SQL piece (Tom you helped point that
out
in my post on the same day as this one). We have an Enterpise SQL EMC geo
cluster that just went up and we will be pointing the LCS 2005 BE servers
to
two databases (user and archive) on this Virtual SQL 2000 cluster.
I just wasn't sure if the actual SQL servers need LCS 2005 binary/app
files
on them or as it sounds you just install your BE servers with the MSMQ, IM
Archiving Service and point the system to the external databases.
|
It may just be a matter of firing up a "small" VMWare and Virtual Server
environment and testing this. If you have both EMC and Veritas SQL clusters
you may find that Veritas will perform better. It is not recommended to
perform the installation in production without a test.
Hope this helps (it's more of an insight than answers),
Bob |
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Thomas Wenzl [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
|
|
Hello Bob,
Bob Christian wrote:
| Quote: | Thomas, it is always good to see you and your input.
|
thanks, same applies to you.
| Quote: | It will be interesting to see what the vendors say.
|
me, too.
[...]
| Quote: | However, the downside is that the only product that Microsoft
will support clustered LCS backends on is MS Cluster services.
|
which IMO is not suprising. Does MS officially support 3rd party
clusters for any other vendors without an additional contract with
MCS or PSS, etc.?
[...]
| Quote: | I am not sure how the SQL solutions work, outside of
what the consultants have told me. Both products work well. In
regards to EMC, they work well on updated EMC hardware.
|
that doesn't sound bad. The key to a working LCS2005 EE cluster
is mainly the SQL Server 2000 Back-End database - which is clustered
actually.
| Quote: | Hope this helps (it's more of an insight than answers),
|
thanks for your valuable comments!
Regards
--
Thomas Wenzl [MVP for Live Communications Server]
Share what you know, learn what you don't!
(Deja/Google) |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Bob Christian
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:48 am Post subject:
Re: Geo clustering LCS 2005 backend |
|
|
"Thomas Wenzl [MVP]" <twenzl@web.de> wrote in message
news:O3G19nFDFHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | Hello Bob,
Bob Christian wrote:
Thomas, it is always good to see you and your input.
thanks, same applies to you.
It will be interesting to see what the vendors say.
me, too.
[...]
However, the downside is that the only product that Microsoft
will support clustered LCS backends on is MS Cluster services.
which IMO is not suprising. Does MS officially support 3rd party
clusters for any other vendors without an additional contract with
MCS or PSS, etc.?
|
Typing in hastop (with Veritas VCS) will make it appear as if the Exchange
server is not running on a cluster. That is about as far as Microsoft will
let you go. The problem is that the vendors, such as Legato and Veritas
will not talk to you about Exchange problems.
| Quote: |
[...]
I am not sure how the SQL solutions work, outside of
what the consultants have told me. Both products work well. In
regards to EMC, they work well on updated EMC hardware.
that doesn't sound bad. The key to a working LCS2005 EE cluster
is mainly the SQL Server 2000 Back-End database - which is clustered
actually.
Hope this helps (it's more of an insight than answers),
thanks for your valuable comments!
|
Same to you, Thomas.
| Quote: |
Regards
--
Thomas Wenzl [MVP for Live Communications Server]
Share what you know, learn what you don't!
(Deja/Google) |
|
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