Question regarding clustering hardware needs.
Windows Server Forum Index Windows Server
Server discussion on Windows platform.
 
 FAQFAQ   MemberlistMemberlist     RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 
Google
 
Web winserverhelp.com
Question regarding clustering hardware needs.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Windows Server Forum Index -> Clustering
Author Message
ggibeau
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Greetings,

I have a quick (I hope) question. I am an instructor at a local community
college and one of the courses I teach is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Edition. I was able to get some budget dollars approved to purchase
equipment needed to demonstrate clustering technology. This will be a
classroom demonstration project only; it will never go into production. As
such, can I get a sanity check regarding my projected plan?
I will take 2 identical machines (goal is an active/passive setup), each
with 2 NIC’s, and install Server 2003 (with required static IP, DNS, WINS,
SP’s, etc., as required) and connect them via crossover cable. I plan on
using SCSI (since only 2 nodes I decided against Fibre) as the hard drive
controller type to both internal and external storage.

Since I am not worried about performance, etc. and merely want to
demonstrate clustering technology, am I missing anything obvious? Are there
any hardware components (as far as the SCSI controller or drives are
considered) that are better then others? I have $4K available for equipment
(excluding computers and NIC’s which I already have) and want to make sure I
get the best equipment (as far as life span) that I can for the money.

If anyone has any recommendations, I would be grateful.

Thanks for your time,

George Gibeau
Back to top
Brian Desmond [MVP]
Guest
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Hi George,

You'll need some shared storage in the middle - something like a Dell
PowerVault 220 with even one disk is enough. You might be able to save the
money on the powervault and setup iscsi targets on a third system (doesn't
need to be anything powerful), but I've never tried this before.

What I would have opted to do in this scenario is spend the 4 grand on a
decent box (Dell 1850s and 2850s are onsale at the moment), and a virtual
server license and virtualize your cluster. You can simulate shared storage
for up to two nodes in Virtual Server. Your students won't get the advantage
of seeing the physical setup, but in all honesty, a SCSI DAS isn't really
the real world deal for clustering.

--
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP

www.briandesmond.com


"ggibeau" <ggibeau@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BEFD1698-0690-412B-B379-B3C7A5593939@microsoft.com...
Quote:
Greetings,

I have a quick (I hope) question. I am an instructor at a local community
college and one of the courses I teach is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Edition. I was able to get some budget dollars approved to purchase
equipment needed to demonstrate clustering technology. This will be a
classroom demonstration project only; it will never go into production.
As
such, can I get a sanity check regarding my projected plan?
I will take 2 identical machines (goal is an active/passive setup), each
with 2 NIC's, and install Server 2003 (with required static IP, DNS, WINS,
SP's, etc., as required) and connect them via crossover cable. I plan on
using SCSI (since only 2 nodes I decided against Fibre) as the hard drive
controller type to both internal and external storage.

Since I am not worried about performance, etc. and merely want to
demonstrate clustering technology, am I missing anything obvious? Are
there
any hardware components (as far as the SCSI controller or drives are
considered) that are better then others? I have $4K available for
equipment
(excluding computers and NIC's which I already have) and want to make sure
I
get the best equipment (as far as life span) that I can for the money.

If anyone has any recommendations, I would be grateful.

Thanks for your time,

George Gibeau
Back to top
KOOLER
Guest
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
George,

I totally agree with Brian. You can give a try to iSCSI as it looks
like it would solve your task.
Linux-based iSCSI targets would be free to you and if you need to stick
with Windows you
can easily find inexpensive iSCSI target software for Windows with
clustering support. Like
our StarWind :) As you're working for educational organization final
price would be either 50%
from the original price or maybe even free... You can drop us a message
and we'll provide you
with long-term evaluation keys and assistance how to build the whole
system.

Thanks!

Regards,
Anton Kolomyeytsev

CEO, Rocket Division Software
Back to top
ggibeau
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply, I will check out the solution you mentioned to see if
it will meet our needs.

-George-

"KOOLER" wrote:

Quote:
George,

I totally agree with Brian. You can give a try to iSCSI as it looks
like it would solve your task.
Linux-based iSCSI targets would be free to you and if you need to stick
with Windows you
can easily find inexpensive iSCSI target software for Windows with
clustering support. Like
our StarWind :) As you're working for educational organization final
price would be either 50%
from the original price or maybe even free... You can drop us a message
and we'll provide you
with long-term evaluation keys and assistance how to build the whole
system.

Thanks!

Regards,
Anton Kolomyeytsev

CEO, Rocket Division Software

Back to top
ggibeau
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
In our lab, we are using the infamous Dovercorp.Net domain ;-) with no
interaction to any domains outside of the lab environment. As such, the
clustering boxes would not be DC's, but merely member servers. Part of what
I want to demonstrate is the fault tolerance associated with clustering (does
not have to be high performance or anything, merely the application of the
concept). We do have VMware as well as Virtual PC - and really never thought
of doing it this way - guess I will have to rethink my plans.

Thanks for the advice.

-George-

"John Toner [MVP]" wrote:

Quote:
Do you have a DC or do you plan to make your cluster nodes domain
controllers? (see Rod's past 100 posts for reasons why you should cluster DC
;-) Personally, I would stick with a virtual environment (VMware or VS) as
it might suit your needs better.

Regards,
John
Back to top
ggibeau
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
I will take a look at the Dell's you mentioned and see what we can achieve
for the budget dollars we have. It looks like Dell has a lot of refurbs of
the models you mentioned, so I will take a look at that to see what we can
get.

-George-

"Brian Desmond [MVP]" wrote:

Quote:
Hi George,

You'll need some shared storage in the middle - something like a Dell
PowerVault 220 with even one disk is enough. You might be able to save the
money on the powervault and setup iscsi targets on a third system (doesn't
need to be anything powerful), but I've never tried this before.

What I would have opted to do in this scenario is spend the 4 grand on a
decent box (Dell 1850s and 2850s are onsale at the moment), and a virtual
server license and virtualize your cluster. You can simulate shared storage
for up to two nodes in Virtual Server. Your students won't get the advantage
of seeing the physical setup, but in all honesty, a SCSI DAS isn't really
the real world deal for clustering.

--
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP

www.briandesmond.com
Back to top
John Toner [MVP]
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Do you have a DC or do you plan to make your cluster nodes domain
controllers? (see Rod's past 100 posts for reasons why you should cluster DC
;-) Personally, I would stick with a virtual environment (VMware or VS) as
it might suit your needs better.

Regards,
John


"ggibeau" <ggibeau@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BEFD1698-0690-412B-B379-B3C7A5593939@microsoft.com...
Quote:
Greetings,

I have a quick (I hope) question. I am an instructor at a local community
college and one of the courses I teach is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Edition. I was able to get some budget dollars approved to purchase
equipment needed to demonstrate clustering technology. This will be a
classroom demonstration project only; it will never go into production.
As
such, can I get a sanity check regarding my projected plan?
I will take 2 identical machines (goal is an active/passive setup), each
with 2 NIC's, and install Server 2003 (with required static IP, DNS, WINS,
SP's, etc., as required) and connect them via crossover cable. I plan on
using SCSI (since only 2 nodes I decided against Fibre) as the hard drive
controller type to both internal and external storage.

Since I am not worried about performance, etc. and merely want to
demonstrate clustering technology, am I missing anything obvious? Are
there
any hardware components (as far as the SCSI controller or drives are
considered) that are better then others? I have $4K available for
equipment
(excluding computers and NIC's which I already have) and want to make sure
I
get the best equipment (as far as life span) that I can for the money.

If anyone has any recommendations, I would be grateful.

Thanks for your time,

George Gibeau
Back to top
Brian Desmond [MVP]
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
I believe with 2003 R2 which is coming out in the next couple months you can
iscsi target natively to 2003 R2 as well.

--
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP

www.briandesmond.com


"KOOLER" <anton@rocketdivision.com> wrote in message
news:1130059700.294033.132460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
George,

I totally agree with Brian. You can give a try to iSCSI as it looks
like it would solve your task.
Linux-based iSCSI targets would be free to you and if you need to stick
with Windows you
can easily find inexpensive iSCSI target software for Windows with
clustering support. Like
our StarWind :) As you're working for educational organization final
price would be either 50%
from the original price or maybe even free... You can drop us a message
and we'll provide you
with long-term evaluation keys and assistance how to build the whole
system.

Thanks!

Regards,
Anton Kolomyeytsev

CEO, Rocket Division Software
Back to top
Peter Lykkegaard
Guest
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
"ggibeau" wrote

Quote:
We do have VMware as well as Virtual PC - and really never thought
of doing it this way - guess I will have to rethink my plans.

You can "easily" get a testsetup up and running with VMWare Workstation 5.x

The 4.x versions has some minor flaws

Let me know if you need further help with VMWare and the cluster demo
I think you should be fine as you all need the win 2003 and one shared disk
for quorum
Doing MSSQL custer demos is almost just as easy

If you choose the MS path you need at least Virtual Server or Virtual PC
with iSCSI
Search back in this group for further details

rgds/Peter
Back to top
KOOLER
Guest
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Where did you get information about upcoming 2003 release with iSCSI
target
embedded? I was not able to locate any information. Can you provide any
URLs
if you please?

Thanks!

Anton Kolomyeytsev
Back to top
Brian Desmond [MVP]
Guest
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
I think its included in the Simple SAN stuff in 2003 R2 - just search that
on ms.com, there's tons of stuffa bout it.

--
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP

www.briandesmond.com


"KOOLER" <anton@rocketdivision.com> wrote in message
news:1130210549.027052.147430@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Where did you get information about upcoming 2003 release with iSCSI
target
embedded? I was not able to locate any information. Can you provide any
URLs
if you please?

Thanks!

Anton Kolomyeytsev
Back to top
Brian Desmond [MVP]
Guest
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
Virtual Server supports native shared scsi, 2 nodes max. Its a wee bit
buggy.

I didn't know VMWare workstation did, thought it was only GSX, but htats
cool if it does.

--
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP

www.briandesmond.com


"Peter Lykkegaard" <peter.aghl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Oj4WNsN2FHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Quote:
"ggibeau" wrote

We do have VMware as well as Virtual PC - and really never thought
of doing it this way - guess I will have to rethink my plans.

You can "easily" get a testsetup up and running with VMWare Workstation
5.x
The 4.x versions has some minor flaws

Let me know if you need further help with VMWare and the cluster demo
I think you should be fine as you all need the win 2003 and one shared
disk for quorum
Doing MSSQL custer demos is almost just as easy

If you choose the MS path you need at least Virtual Server or Virtual PC
with iSCSI
Search back in this group for further details

rgds/Peter
Back to top
Peter Lykkegaard
Guest
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
"Brian Desmond wrote

Quote:
Virtual Server supports native shared scsi, 2 nodes max. Its a wee bit
buggy.

I didn't know VMWare workstation did, thought it was only GSX, but htats
cool if it does.

I have a two node mssql cluster running for system/software tests (VMW 5.0)


I have no actual experience with active/active or multiple node setup on VMW
though

- Peter
Back to top
Peter Lykkegaard
Guest
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
"Peter Lykkegaard" wrote

Quote:
I have a two node mssql cluster running for system/software tests (VMW
5.0)

A step by step guide

http://view.samurajdata.se/rsc/983dbf6b/

:-) Peter
Back to top
KOOLER
Guest
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding clustering hardware needs. Reply with quote
I've only found references about how to manage iSCSI target IF IT'S
INSTALLED.

According to this
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/windowsnet/ec_050203.mspx
there would be no iSCSI target embedded to the OS installation. Can
anybody from MS either confirm
or deny this?

Did you try yourself what you write or you just think it's supposed to
be so? :)

Thanks!

Anton
Back to top
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Windows Server Forum Index -> Clustering All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




New Topics Powered by phpBB