Windows Server

Guest

Hello,

We had three identical SBS2000 servers on the same physical LAN each
with a separate/dedicated NIC connected to the same physical WAN (LAN
and WAN are physically separate networks). The three servers have
different domain names and only one of these had DHCP server installed.
Sample details follow (obviously I have changed the specifics to
generics):

SERVER LAN NIC WAN NIC DHCP DOMAIN
-----------------------------------------------------------
SERVER1 10.10.10.1 192.168.10.1 NOT INSTALLED abc.local
SERVER2 10.10.10.2 192.168.10.2 INSTALLED def.local
SERVER3 10.10.10.3 192.168.10.3 NOT INSTALLED ghi.local

(NB1. SUBNETMASK on all NIC's 255.255.255.0)

Everything worked very well until we upgraded one server (SERVER1 in
the example above) to SBS2003 (fresh install to a new disk using a full
copy of SBS2003 standard edition).

We chose the option during install not to install DHCP Server/Services
in order that we could retain the existing SBS2000 server (SERVER2 in
the example above) as our DHCP server.

All seemed to work when we upgraded, clients of SERVER1 were receiving
IP addresses from the DHCP server (SERVER2) as did SERVER2/3 clients.
But, after ten(ish) days the SBS2000 server with DHCP installed
(SERVER2) aborted its DHCP service. We were able to restarted DHCP on
SERVER2 but it stops again after five minutes with the following event
log message: "Event ID: 1053: The DHCP/BINL service on this Small
Business Server has encountered another server on this network with IP
Address, 10.10.10.1, belonging to the domain: . ".

No event log messages appear on the SBS2003 (SERVER1) server.

Despite DHCP not being installed on SERVER1 the service appears in the
SERVICES list (although it was not started) so we disabled it (and the
WINHTTP service). This made no difference.

(NB2. All servers are updated with the latest patches.)

So, after that very long explanation, I would like to know if there any
services besides DHCL Server which need to be de-installed/disabled on
the SBS2003 server to stop it crashing DHCP on SERVER2?

(NB3. It is the intention to upgrade SERVER2 and SERVER3 to SBS2003,
but must have our preferred configuration working before we can
contemplate this.)

Thanks in advance, Gary

Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP] · Guest

I don't have a clue as to how this would have worked before...or for that matter why you would attempt a setup like this that is so far outside the acceptable configuration for SBS.

And when you go this far outside the box, upgrades are going to be an issue because its looking for a more "standard configuration".

If you really want this to work and obtain assistance, you've got to provide more details on why you run 3 separate lans all on the same lan subnet (which is what is causing your problems to begin with and it must be more than just sharing the same internet connection. Are users in domain 1, trying to access resources in either domain 2 or 3? or domain 2 users get access to 1 and 3, etc?

--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
-------------------------------------------------
Please do not email me directly for assistance. Reply only in the Newsgroups for the benefit of everyone
<garynospamhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1128940250.787400.171710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hello,

We had three identical SBS2000 servers on the same physical LAN each
with a separate/dedicated NIC connected to the same physical WAN (LAN
and WAN are physically separate networks). The three servers have
different domain names and only one of these had DHCP server installed.
Sample details follow (obviously I have changed the specifics to
generics):

SERVER LAN NIC WAN NIC DHCP DOMAIN
-----------------------------------------------------------
SERVER1 10.10.10.1 192.168.10.1 NOT INSTALLED abc.local
SERVER2 10.10.10.2 192.168.10.2 INSTALLED def.local
SERVER3 10.10.10.3 192.168.10.3 NOT INSTALLED ghi.local

(NB1. SUBNETMASK on all NIC's 255.255.255.0)

Everything worked very well until we upgraded one server (SERVER1 in
the example above) to SBS2003 (fresh install to a new disk using a full
copy of SBS2003 standard edition).

We chose the option during install not to install DHCP Server/Services
in order that we could retain the existing SBS2000 server (SERVER2 in
the example above) as our DHCP server.

All seemed to work when we upgraded, clients of SERVER1 were receiving
IP addresses from the DHCP server (SERVER2) as did SERVER2/3 clients.
But, after ten(ish) days the SBS2000 server with DHCP installed
(SERVER2) aborted its DHCP service. We were able to restarted DHCP on
SERVER2 but it stops again after five minutes with the following event
log message: "Event ID: 1053: The DHCP/BINL service on this Small
Business Server has encountered another server on this network with IP
Address, 10.10.10.1, belonging to the domain: . ".

No event log messages appear on the SBS2003 (SERVER1) server.

Despite DHCP not being installed on SERVER1 the service appears in the
SERVICES list (although it was not started) so we disabled it (and the
WINHTTP service). This made no difference.

(NB2. All servers are updated with the latest patches.)

So, after that very long explanation, I would like to know if there any
services besides DHCL Server which need to be de-installed/disabled on
the SBS2003 server to stop it crashing DHCP on SERVER2?

(NB3. It is the intention to upgrade SERVER2 and SERVER3 to SBS2003,
but must have our preferred configuration working before we can
contemplate this.)

Thanks in advance, Gary

Guest

Chris,

Thank you for the reply.

We started with a single SBS 4.0 installation and through the
sub-division of our company the configuration grew to it's current
format. The three SBS boxes serve remote users. There is no interaction
or sharing of data between the SBS servers. A single LAN subnet is used
so that all the external users can access a non-SBS device on the
internal network. Under SBS-4.5 and SBS-2000 it has been working very
well and is easy to administer - a side benefit is that it provides us
with a degree of fault tolerance.

Anyway, are you saying that our prefered configuration cannot work
under SBS-2003? Have Microsoft installed a network sniffer to detect
any other SBS boxes on the same subnet? Or, is it impossible to
disable/de-install DHCP Server under SBS-2003?

Thanks in advance, Gary

*****************************************

Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP] wrote:

Kathy · Guest

Ignore that. I was wondering if netbios scope IDs would stop the machines
talking to the wrong domain, but I don't think that would work with
2000/2003. I suspect that VLANS or dividing up your address space by
subnetting it is the only way to go.

Kathy

"Kathy" <vbtskje@nospam.postalias> wrote in message
news:uCmlwbb0FHA.268@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Kathy · Guest

Just interested: Do you use different DHCP scopes so that you can make sure
that each domain's member workstations get the correct DNS server, WINS
server and default gateway entries (so that they register with the correct
DNS server)? Remember that the DHCP client service interacts with AD/DNS.

Kathy

<garynospamhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1129383535.147110.123630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Guest

Kathy,

Remote users are assigned a pseudo static IP address and prevented from
accessing anything outside the LAN while connected to our servers. They
do not therefore need DNS.

I believe that having the SBS boxes on seperate subnets will not help
us as the non-SBS device that all remote clients need to access would
act as a bridge between the subnets. From reading other posts on this
forum, I suspect that SBS-2003 would see another DHCP server across any
of the subnets to which the non-SBS device is connected.

We have to find out what causes SBS2003 to kill DHCP Server on another
SBS box. Or we will just have to cancel the upgrade of the three
servers and leave them all on SBS2000.

Regards, Gary

Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP] · Guest

Gary sorry for the delay in getting back on this
What is the device? I think we can get there...

Also...curious, what redundancy do you think you have in the current config?

--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
-------------------------------------------------
Please do not email me directly for assistance. Reply only in the Newsgroups for the benefit of everyone
<garynospamhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1129575328.947394.302640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Kathy,

Remote users are assigned a pseudo static IP address and prevented from
accessing anything outside the LAN while connected to our servers. They
do not therefore need DNS.

I believe that having the SBS boxes on seperate subnets will not help
us as the non-SBS device that all remote clients need to access would
act as a bridge between the subnets. From reading other posts on this
forum, I suspect that SBS-2003 would see another DHCP server across any
of the subnets to which the non-SBS device is connected.

We have to find out what causes SBS2003 to kill DHCP Server on another
SBS box. Or we will just have to cancel the upgrade of the three
servers and leave them all on SBS2000.

Regards, Gary

Kathy · Guest

If the external clients don't need DNS, why do you need to use DHCP on the
2000 box? DHCP CLIENT is necessary on 2003 server for AD. You should be able
to use one (and only one, I expect, with SBS) authorised DHCP server -
shouldn't matter what it's running on. BUT AFAIK You can't authorize a DHCP
server that isn't part of AD, so, as your domains have to be in separate,
untrusted forests, two SBS DHCP servers will probably shut each other down -
NT 4 would keep running as it doesn't obey the rules. If you have more than
one 200x DHCP server on a subnet, they detect each other and each one tries
to contact a DC to see if it is authorized in AD. If it isn't, it shuts
down. BUT, (according to TechNet) a non-domain member won't shut down if
there are no authorized DHCP servers. It's worth experimenting with just
2003, just 2000 and DHCP on a standalone box, if you have spare
workstation.

BTW DHCP only passes through routers if the router is configured to allow
it - remember the good old days of setting up DHCP relays with NT4.

See
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/library/ServerHelp/9a4157c4-3c2f-4871-9ffe-7d405781f2cf.mspx
for explanation and links to authorization steps in 2003 (not SBS).

Kathy
<garynospamhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1129575328.947394.302640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

SuperGumby [SBS MVP] · Guest

did the DHCP shutdown coincide with the first connection of a VPN client?

<garynospamhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1129575328.947394.302640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Guest

Hello all,

There follows answers to all questions posed in earlier posts (in no
particular order):

The DHCP shutdown occurs regardless of LAN or WAN access. It appears to
be a time related event though we have not been able to prove this as
business contraints have prevented us from continuing to isolate
further (all three SBS servers are in production).

The device our remote users log in to is a security logging/event
messaging and billing system. It is not a Windows product. It runs a
propietary operating system with a bespoke interface using TELNET for
communications.

Our prefered configuration provides fault tolerance in that we have
three independant WAN access routes to the device mentioned above. If
neccessary we can swap users between SBS servers in the event of a
failure.

Having all three SBS servers on the same internal subnet allows our
system administrators to easily manage the servers internally from the
LAN and more importantly externally from the WAN.

Again, our prefered configuration has been working fine for a number of
years with all three servers running SBS-2000, it is only since we
upgraded one server to SBS-2003 that we have experienced the problems
with DHCP. If we could find out what on the SBS-2003 server causes
another server on the same subnet to kill its DHCP server process and
disable it we would be able to upgrade all our servers to SBS-2003.
Otherwise we are stuck with SBS-2000.

Regards, Gary

DHCP shut down caused by SBS2003 upgrade on a multi SBS site

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