| Author |
Message |
Marlon Brown
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:
Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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I am planning to setup clusters in a "workgroup" configuration, since the
boxes would be placed in the "DMZ".
Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are not part
of the domain ?
I recall that the "cluster" account needed during the time the Microsoft
Cluster is configured required a "domain account". Not sure if that means it
doesn't work when machines are not joined to the domain. |
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Todd J Heron
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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In news:u%23tqYUQfFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl,
Marlon Brown <nospamarlon@hotmail.com> posted the following:
| Quote: | Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are not
part of the domain ?
|
I'm afraid you can't do this - you need a domain.
--
Todd J Heron, MCSE
Windows Server 2003/2000/NT; CCA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights |
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Russ Kaufmann
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:31 am Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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"Todd J Heron" <todd_heron_no_spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ok32CRfFHA.3164@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | In news:u%23tqYUQfFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl,
Marlon Brown <nospamarlon@hotmail.com> posted the following:
Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are not
part of the domain ?
I'm afraid you can't do this - you need a domain.
|
and it can be any type of domain from an NT domain to Windows Server 2003 AD |
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Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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True, but the only fully support domain model today is Windows Server 2003.
2000/NT are old school :)
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
"Russ Kaufmann" <russ@nospam.exchangemct.com> wrote in message
news:O1WAqeRfFHA.572@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | "Todd J Heron" <todd_heron_no_spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ok32CRfFHA.3164@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
In news:u%23tqYUQfFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl,
Marlon Brown <nospamarlon@hotmail.com> posted the following:
Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are not
part of the domain ?
I'm afraid you can't do this - you need a domain.
and it can be any type of domain from an NT domain to Windows Server 2003
AD
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Russ Kaufmann
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@die.spam.die.nw-america.com> wrote in
message news:OcZ6PPYfFHA.3904@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | True, but the only fully support domain model today is Windows Server
2003. 2000/NT are old school :)
|
Very true now that mainstream Windows 2000 support is going away and NT 4.0
support has been gone for a good while. |
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David Cornes
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:51 am Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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....but there's no reason why the domain can't reside on the cluster itself,
with no relationship to any other servers, and just include the two nodes. If
I remember there are some caveats to having clustered DCs, but I don't think
it's impossible to set up.
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | True, but the only fully support domain model today is Windows Server 2003.
2000/NT are old school :)
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
"Russ Kaufmann" <russ@nospam.exchangemct.com> wrote in message
news:O1WAqeRfFHA.572@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
"Todd J Heron" <todd_heron_no_spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ok32CRfFHA.3164@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
In news:u%23tqYUQfFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl,
Marlon Brown <nospamarlon@hotmail.com> posted the following:
Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are not
part of the domain ?
I'm afraid you can't do this - you need a domain.
and it can be any type of domain from an NT domain to Windows Server 2003
AD
|
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| Back to top |
|
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Russ Kaufmann
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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"David Cornes" <DavidCornes@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BE500C86-4AD1-4B1E-B414-8F13EFDE71FF@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | ...but there's no reason why the domain can't reside on the cluster
itself,
with no relationship to any other servers, and just include the two nodes.
If
I remember there are some caveats to having clustered DCs, but I don't
think > it's impossible to set up.
|
It isn't supported for Exchange servers, and it just doesn't make sense for
server clusters. To achieve HA for the information in and the services
provided by DCs and GCs, the recommended solution is to have two or more as
needed to meet organizational requirements.
There will probably be issues when it comes time to upgrade to the next
version of Windows if your cluster nodes are also DC/GCs.
To support a cluster, co-locate a DC/GC with the server cluster. Some
additional information can be found here:
Windows 2000 and Windows Server 2003 cluster nodes as domain controllers
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;281662
Active Directory domain controllers are not supported as Exchange Server
cluster nodes
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898634
| Quote: |
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
True, but the only fully support domain model today is Windows Server
2003.
2000/NT are old school :)
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
"Russ Kaufmann" <russ@nospam.exchangemct.com> wrote in message
news:O1WAqeRfFHA.572@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
"Todd J Heron" <todd_heron_no_spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ok32CRfFHA.3164@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
In news:u%23tqYUQfFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl,
Marlon Brown <nospamarlon@hotmail.com> posted the following:
Is it possible to setup clusters in a Win20003 SQL if the boxes are
not
part of the domain ?
I'm afraid you can't do this - you need a domain.
and it can be any type of domain from an NT domain to Windows Server
2003
AD
|
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Farai Alleyne
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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| are their any issues with having the 2 servers DCs in a SQL cluster. |
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Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]
Guest
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Dean
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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Hmmm, quite suprised with your answer there Rodney saying "NEVER" cluster DC's.
You centainly CAN have DC's in a cluster, the only configuration that MS
dont support is exchange server cluster nodes as DC's.
You can quite happily configure SQL and any other cluster resources on DC's
and there is MS articles about this.
Basically you you would configure a DOMAINLET for your SQL cluster, this i
have done many times.
Read the following articles and there links will explain all.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;281662
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/administration/cluster/domainlets.asp
Hope this helps
Dean
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
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Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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Agreed, and again the difference between works and a good idea and fully
supported comes into play.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Chuck Timon [MSFT]" <ctimon@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:eQRcpA3wFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | I would agree with Rod that you should avoid running the cluster service on
a DC. It is certainly not supported with Exchange clustered. However, the
original KB article was written because there are customers who deploy
clusters in DMZs and do not have connectivity to their internal AD
infrastructure. They also want to minimize their hardware so they don't
want to have servers in the DMZ that are strictly functioning as DCs and
DNS servers.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];281662
--
Chuck Timon, Jr.
Microsoft Corporation
CCS Beta Engineer
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no
warranties, and confers no rights.
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@die.spam.die.nw-america.com> wrote in
message news:O9K2DR2wFHA.3152@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I stand by that statement and it should have been in all CAPS! NEVER
cluster a DC. I just don't see a business reason to cluster what already
has HA built in. I have also seen issues with clustered DC's. I will stand
behind this best practice.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Dean" <Dean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5542079A-2873-4EC7-A9B8-6D03FCD64CF5@microsoft.com...
Hmmm, quite suprised with your answer there Rodney saying "NEVER"
cluster DC's.
You centainly CAN have DC's in a cluster, the only configuration that MS
dont support is exchange server cluster nodes as DC's.
You can quite happily configure SQL and any other cluster resources on
DC's
and there is MS articles about this.
Basically you you would configure a DOMAINLET for your SQL cluster, this
i
have done many times.
Read the following articles and there links will explain all.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;281662
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/administration/cluster/domainlets.asp
Hope this helps
Dean
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
Same issue Russ brought up, please never cluster a DCs.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
http://msmvps.com/clustering/archive/2005/07/20/58233.aspx NYC
Clustering
class
"Farai Alleyne" <Farai Alleyne@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
news:58146560-9C74-4B79-9A59-FACBD794B3DF@microsoft.com...
are their any issues with having the 2 servers DCs in a SQL cluster.
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Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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I stand by that statement and it should have been in all CAPS! NEVER cluster
a DC. I just don't see a business reason to cluster what already has HA
built in. I have also seen issues with clustered DC's. I will stand behind
this best practice.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Dean" <Dean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5542079A-2873-4EC7-A9B8-6D03FCD64CF5@microsoft.com...
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Chuck Timon [MSFT]
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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I would agree with Rod that you should avoid running the cluster service on
a DC. It is certainly not supported with Exchange clustered. However, the
original KB article was written because there are customers who deploy
clusters in DMZs and do not have connectivity to their internal AD
infrastructure. They also want to minimize their hardware so they don't
want to have servers in the DMZ that are strictly functioning as DCs and DNS
servers.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];281662
--
Chuck Timon, Jr.
Microsoft Corporation
CCS Beta Engineer
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no
warranties, and confers no rights.
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@die.spam.die.nw-america.com> wrote in
message news:O9K2DR2wFHA.3152@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
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Dean
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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You guys stick by whatever you want to, your policies are exactly that "Your
policies"..
In an everyday environment that has access to AD, yes i wouldnt cluster
DC's, however in certain situations i.e. a DMZ or a stand alone environment
say an environment just for a website (couple of IIS servers with backend SQL
cluster) that you need / want to be seperate (maybe its a hosted service for
instance) then i would / do use clustered DC's regular.
I mean come on its not like they are really fully functional DC's, in the
first place all they are there for is authentication for the cluster service
account. You guys are being far to literal about this...
At the end of the day the only clustered DC's that arent supported by MS are
exchange ones, Clustered DC's in a domainlet configuration as i have stated
ARE supported by MS, so what does that tell you!!!!!!
"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:
| Quote: | "Dean" <Dean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5542079A-2873-4EC7-A9B8-6D03FCD64CF5@microsoft.com...
Hmmm, quite suprised with your answer there Rodney saying "NEVER" cluster
DC's.
You centainly CAN have DC's in a cluster, the only configuration that MS
dont support is exchange server cluster nodes as DC's.
Can and should are two very different things.
--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Website
http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp - New Blog
http://spaces.msn.com/members/russkaufmann - Old Blog
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Don Wilwol
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:
Re: Can I setup cluster in 'workgroup' configuration |
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I'm with Rod and Russ. I've clustered DC's in a lab, but I'd NEVER put it in
a production environment.
--
Hope it helps
dw
_______________________________
Don Wilwol
donwilwol(DELETE)@yahoo.com
http://spaces.msn.com/members/wilwol/
"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" <russ@exchangemct.com> wrote in message
news:%23hAn4U6wFHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | "Dean" <Dean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5542079A-2873-4EC7-A9B8-6D03FCD64CF5@microsoft.com...
Hmmm, quite suprised with your answer there Rodney saying "NEVER" cluster
DC's.
You centainly CAN have DC's in a cluster, the only configuration that MS
dont support is exchange server cluster nodes as DC's.
Can and should are two very different things.
--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Website
http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp - New Blog
http://spaces.msn.com/members/russkaufmann - Old Blog
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