| Author |
Message |
TheSingingCat
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject:
Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to function
as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS and
printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0
member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
tsc |
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|
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Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
No, probably not.
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
| Quote: | Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function
as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS and
printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0
member).
|
If you have a Microsoft IP network of more than one
subnet you need WINS server(s).
All machines (including Win2003 servers, even the WINS
server itself) must be clients of the WINS server.
WINS is still used for helping the browse masters exchange
browse lists across subnets and for up to a dozen other little
things.
> Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for. |
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|
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Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
In news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com,
TheSingingCat <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> commented
Then Kevin replied below:
| Quote: | Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is
pretty straight forward -- two offices over VPN link.
All servers are 2003 native running AD integrated DNS w/o
issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native mode.
Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue
to function as expected yes? We have an older box now
that is doing our WINS and printing for a few clients but
I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0 member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on
the lookout for.
|
One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
--
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
===================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
via your newsreader so that others may learn and
benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
me remove the nospam. from my email address.
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Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:09 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
| Quote: | One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
|
You could actually resolve the NetBIOS names from
legacy clients if you have only one subnet.
Mainly it is the multiple subnets that causes the need
for the WINS server.
--
Herb Martin
"Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <admin@nospam.WFTX.US> wrote in message
news:uXu4bTY$EHA.4004@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| Quote: | In news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com,
TheSingingCat <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> commented
Then Kevin replied below:
Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is
pretty straight forward -- two offices over VPN link.
All servers are 2003 native running AD integrated DNS w/o
issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native mode.
Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue
to function as expected yes? We have an older box now
that is doing our WINS and printing for a few clients but
I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0 member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on
the lookout for.
One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
--
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
===================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
via your newsreader so that others may learn and
benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
me remove the nospam. from my email address.
===================================
http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
===================================
Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
It will strip signature out and more
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
===================================
Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
with OEBackup:
http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
===================================
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John Smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
?? i have never heard anything like that regarding wins and 2k3. make
sure all of your computers are pointing to an AD dns server as their
primary dns server - that's my best advice.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:01:08 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
| Quote: | No, probably not.
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function
as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS and
printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0
member).
If you have a Microsoft IP network of more than one
subnet you need WINS server(s).
All machines (including Win2003 servers, even the WINS
server itself) must be clients of the WINS server.
WINS is still used for helping the browse masters exchange
browse lists across subnets and for up to a dozen other little
things.
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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John Smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:31 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
where are you getting this from?? b/c there are multiple subnets you need
WINS? point me to a place on MS's website where it states that...
so DNS can't handle multiple subnets? that makes no sense.
WINS is now considered a legacy name resolution service.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:37 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
| Quote: | One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
You could actually resolve the NetBIOS names from
legacy clients if you have only one subnet.
Mainly it is the multiple subnets that causes the need
for the WINS server. |
|
|
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|
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Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:00 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
In news:pan.2005.01.18.18.31.56.872033@macroshaft.com,
John Smith <jsmith@macroshaft.com> commented
Then Kevin replied below:
| Quote: | where are you getting this from?? b/c there are multiple
subnets you need WINS? point me to a place on MS's
website where it states that...
so DNS can't handle multiple subnets? that makes no sense.
|
NetBIOS will not cross most routers, that is why I said If you have multiple
subnets AND you use Network places.
| Quote: | WINS is now considered a legacy name resolution service.
|
You also need Wins if you are setting up trust between two remote domains,
because each trusted domain must be able to resolve the other Domain's
NetBIOS name, or IIRC you need WINS for Exchange on a Remote network.
Legacy clients won't update DNS and therefore you need WINS or you need DHCP
to update DNS for legacy clients.
WINS is not that big of a problem to maintain, and DNS can be configured to
look in WINS for hostnames it doesn't know. The thing is WINS and DNS can
work together to make resolution very reliable, whether using host names or
FQDNs to access network resources.
--
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
===================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
via your newsreader so that others may learn and
benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
me remove the nospam. from my email address.
===================================
http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
===================================
Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
It will strip signature out and more
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
===================================
Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
with OEBackup:
http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
=================================== |
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Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:04 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
"John Smith" <jsmith@macroshaft.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.18.18.21.35.402237@macroshaft.com...
| Quote: | ?? i have never heard anything like that regarding wins and 2k3. make
sure all of your computers are pointing to an AD dns server as their
primary dns server - that's my best advice.
|
It's a common misunderstanding and so it not surprising.
Your advice overlooks however the reason that even
DCs need to be WINS clients: so that they will be
registered with WINS and findable by other computers.
For shares, for external trusts, and perhaps for other
reasons.
--
Herb Martin
| Quote: |
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:01:08 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
No, probably not.
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty
straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native
running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in
native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function
as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS and
printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT
4.0
member).
If you have a Microsoft IP network of more than one
subnet you need WINS server(s).
All machines (including Win2003 servers, even the WINS
server itself) must be clients of the WINS server.
WINS is still used for helping the browse masters exchange
browse lists across subnets and for up to a dozen other little
things.
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:09 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
"John Smith" <jsmith@macroshaft.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.18.18.31.56.872033@macroshaft.com...
| Quote: | where are you getting this from?? b/c there are multiple subnets you need
WINS? point me to a place on MS's website where it states that...
|
Sorry, but you will have to look for yourself -- there is
no need to read such an article if you understand the
remaining need for NetBIOS resolution, and that broadcast
resolution does not work across routers (in general.)
| Quote: | so DNS can't handle multiple subnets? that makes no sense.
|
This means you don't really understand the need for
NetBIOS in practically all (real world) Windows networks
or perhaps how NetBIOS is resolved across routers.
| Quote: | WINS is now considered a legacy name resolution service.
|
Only by those who don't know better. Except in the sense
that it SHOULD be obsolete being still necessary it is not
quire ready for retirement.
Even exteranal trusts between two Win2003 (only) domains
(or even forests) seem to still require NetBIOS resolution
and so if the two are not completely on the same subnet you
will need WINS servers.
Technically you might substitute an LMHOSTS file but
that is way too tedious and only practical for the very
smallest networks.
--
Herb Martin
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:37 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy
clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
You could actually resolve the NetBIOS names from
legacy clients if you have only one subnet.
Mainly it is the multiple subnets that causes the need
for the WINS server.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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Jeff Cochran
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:31:58 -0500, John Smith <jsmith@macroshaft.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | where are you getting this from?? b/c there are multiple subnets you need
WINS? point me to a place on MS's website where it states that...
so DNS can't handle multiple subnets? that makes no sense.
|
Browsing Network Places requires NetBIOS name resolution, which DNS
can provide, *if* there are no routers between the clients. Don't
have routers? Don't need Network Places? Then you may not need WINS.
I think you'll find way too many apps still expecting NetBIOS name
resolution and not using DNS to get rid of it though.
Jeff
| Quote: |
WINS is now considered a legacy name resolution service.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:37 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed by
FQDN?
You could actually resolve the NetBIOS names from
legacy clients if you have only one subnet.
Mainly it is the multiple subnets that causes the need
for the WINS server. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Cochran
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:27:25 GMT, "TheSingingCat"
<meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to function
as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS and
printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT 4.0
member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
|
First, you'll need WINS. But it's a no-brainer to configure and
maintain, why not take the NT4 system offline and see what doesn't
work? If you can live with the things that no longer work, then you
can get rid of WINS. If not, add it to one of your new servers and
change your DHCP scope to point to the new WINS server.
Jeff |
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Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zina.com> wrote in message
news:41f2b572.987748377@msnews.microsoft.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:31:58 -0500, John Smith <jsmith@macroshaft.com
wrote:
where are you getting this from?? b/c there are multiple subnets you need
WINS? point me to a place on MS's website where it states that...
so DNS can't handle multiple subnets? that makes no sense.
Browsing Network Places requires NetBIOS name resolution, which DNS
can provide, *if* there are no routers between the clients. Don't
have routers? Don't need Network Places? Then you may not need WINS.
|
Which is why in all of our advice incidated he would
likely need WINS (still) if he had multiple subnets.
He might benefit on a single subnet but that is not likely.
(Reduced broadcasts, dynamic registration of non-DNS
aware machines etc.).
But if he needed WINS before he almost certainly needs
it with a Win2003 (any Windows) network.
Main issue is the Domain Master Browser and the Master
Browsers from each subnet use WINS as a rendezvous or
locator service to exchange cross subnet browsing
information.
| Quote: | I think you'll find way too many apps still expecting NetBIOS name
resolution and not using DNS to get rid of it though.
|
True: apps a little stuff embedded still in the OS.
--
Herb Martin
| Quote: |
Jeff
WINS is now considered a legacy name resolution service.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:37 -0600, Herb Martin wrote:
One subnet or don't use Network places to access shares, no legacy
clients
or DHCP updating DNS for the legacy clients with all shares accessed
by
FQDN?
You could actually resolve the NetBIOS names from
legacy clients if you have only one subnet.
Mainly it is the multiple subnets that causes the need
for the WINS server.
|
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| Back to top |
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Roger Abell [MVP]
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
Consider getting rid of WINS when your tests show that you
can function with NetBIOS over Tcp/Ip disabled. Remember,
without WINS but with NetBT your machines will be broadcast
NetBT clients.
--
Roger Abell
Microsoft MVP (Windows Server System: Security)
MCDBA, MCSE W2k3+W2k+Nt4
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
| Quote: | Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS
and printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT
4.0 member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
tsc
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
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TheSingingCat
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
Wow, what a can of worms for such an innocent question.
First and foremost : Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread
very interesting and while I've been working on NT for a *long* time, there
are definitely a few things I've since forgot.
Our 2k3 domain is a single forest single domain. We have 2 subnets
connected via VPN which does allow netbios pass through. Currently in Site A
we have our 1 WINS box, Site B has no WINs server setup but all clients
point to the WINS server in site A. There is a GC at each site and DNS
server at each site as well.
While it's certainly true that WINS does not require (especially in our
environment) a lot of maintenance, I was simply more curious about the
overall state of WINS when a network is more or less running at a full 2003
mode and AD DNS as well as all clients on XP Pro; if it could be removed.
Knowing how heavily WINS has been entrenched in our networks for the last 9
years or so.
Perhaps to satisfy my own curiosity, I will stop the WINS server on our
machine (we only have the one) and see what happens :)
At the very least, I should probably refresh my own knowledge on NetBios and
WINS by reading a whitepaper or two.
Thanks gents.
tsc
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
| Quote: | Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our WINS
and printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT
4.0 member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
tsc
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
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Herb Martin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Now can I get rid of WINS? |
|
|
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ee8951$1@news.nucleus.com...
| Quote: |
Wow, what a can of worms for such an innocent question.
First and foremost : Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread
very interesting and while I've been working on NT for a *long* time,
there
are definitely a few things I've since forgot.
|
It's commonly misunderstood, not least of which due to
the marketing hype that prematurely sounded the demise
of NetBIOS during the release of Win2000.
Like Mark Twain, NetBIOS might says that rumors of
my death are greately exaggerated.
| Quote: | Our 2k3 domain is a single forest single domain. We have 2 subnets
connected via VPN which does allow netbios pass through. Currently in Site
A
we have our 1 WINS box, Site B has no WINs server setup but all clients
point to the WINS server in site A. There is a GC at each site and DNS
server at each site as well.
While it's certainly true that WINS does not require (especially in our
environment) a lot of maintenance, I was simply more curious about the
overall state of WINS when a network is more or less running at a full
2003
mode and AD DNS as well as all clients on XP Pro; if it could be removed.
Knowing how heavily WINS has been entrenched in our networks for the last
9
years or so.
|
Modes have nothing to do with WINS necessity nor
with NetBIOS in general.
WINS is about NetBIOS stations AND programs finding
each other across routers in different subnets.
You need NetBIOS, and thus WINS in an IP subnet of more
than on subnet, if you still have legacy systems OR legacy
applications.
It's that latter that most people overlook: NetBIOS applications.
One such that most everyone wants to see continue working:
Network Neighborhood and Server\share browsing
Browsing is a legacy application.
While name resolution AFTER the user sees and then clicks
on the server can be done with DNS, the population of those
browse lists ACROSS subnets is dependent on the Master
Browsers registering themselves with WINS and using it
as a "rendezvous" or locator service.
| Quote: | Perhaps to satisfy my own curiosity, I will stop the WINS server on our
machine (we only have the one) and see what happens :)
|
Cross subnet browsing and other uses of NetBIOS
across subnets will cease working.
| Quote: | At the very least, I should probably refresh my own knowledge on NetBios
and
WINS by reading a whitepaper or two.
|
Built-in help (as a start):
[ WINS checklist ]
--
Herb Martin
| Quote: | Thanks gents.
tsc
"TheSingingCat" <meowmeowmeow@meowmeowmeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:41ed3318@news.nucleus.com...
Well since 3.5 we've had WINS boxes running. Our org is pretty straight
forward -- two offices over VPN link. All servers are 2003 native
running
AD integrated DNS w/o issues, our exchange version is also 2003 in
native
mode. Assuming WINS is axed, UNC pathnames will still continue to
function as expected yes? We have an older box now that is doing our
WINS
and printing for a few clients but I'd like to down this one (it's an NT
4.0 member).
Thanks for your feedback and any quirks I should be on the lookout for.
tsc
|
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