| Author |
Message |
Quiggley
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:
Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stan Fry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
I have done this several times quite successfully for 4000 users. If the
servers are not a
PDC and BDC's (like my first two were) then it is fairly straight forward.
Make sure you know what the existing SNA service account and password are.
If you do not know what the old one is make sure you created a new one
before you installed HIS and it has the necessary privileges.
Build your new 2000 or 2003 servers
call them anything you want, I used a naming scheme like msssnahs1 HS for
hot spare1
Make sure the WINS and DNS settings are correct.
Put them in a work group called the same as your domain. Do not add them to
the domain
Install DLC from the Win2k CD or HIS CD bind it to the adapter used for host
connectivity. In my case I used Ethernet for normal user connectivity and
Token Ring for the host FEP connectivity with DLC as the only bound protocol
on that adapter plus no other bindings yours might be different.
Install all the OS patches
Copy HIS and HIS SP's or hot fixes to you new servers. I created a software$
share and just mapped to it from my workstation or sever hosting the
necessary software. I also used it to store the cab files for the exported
printers.
I also made sure all my NT 4 print drivers on the existing servers were from
the NT4 CD. For the most part I use HP LJ4 or Okidata ML320 and generic
printers yours may vary
I ran the printmig utility (latest version) then copied the exported cab
file to my new servers and used printmig to restore the printers there
Their are some other things you might have to do if your servicing non
standard printers. There are q articles on that and additional utilities.
Once you have everything where you need it you need to make sure you have a
current binary version of the true SNA servers cfg file. I created a share
on the working sna servers and backed up the running cfg to that share. Then
copied it to the new servers.
Make sure you know what the SNA server binding names are on the old servers
and how there configed. Screen shots printed out help.
Once the change record was approved and time slot chosen it was pretty
simple to implement
I shut down the existing servers
removed them from the domain
renamed my new servers to the old servers names, changed ip to the old
server ip, then rebooted
added them to the domain, rebooted
Installed HIS on the two new servers along with HIS hot fixes or patches
Use the same HIS service account and PW. Brought up SNA admin
Created my SNA server link service bindings identical to the old servers
The only thing I had to change was those adapter bindings to the old adapter
binding names
I then opened the cfg file I had saved
The whole thing took about 20 minutes for 2 servers, from shutdown till all
SNA server client services restored on the new boxes.
Soon as all the services went active I had users connecting.
Nice thing about it you can create a hot spare and implement quickly should
one server go down. I have batch file with the printmig, export printers
weekly and copy them to a remote server. Same for the cfg file via a batch
except I do that daily plus a cfg text export. Every time I make a change I
create a backup before and after with the post and current dates. I also
create a backup for the might export in a different directory.
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CB9BA280-5B11-4163-B1EE-1A915587DC46@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a
reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:14 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Thanks a bunch for all the info. They are a BDC and PDC. If they don't need
to be when they are upgrading does it still have an affect on the process?
"Stan Fry" wrote:
| Quote: | I have done this several times quite successfully for 4000 users. If the
servers are not a
PDC and BDC's (like my first two were) then it is fairly straight forward.
Make sure you know what the existing SNA service account and password are.
If you do not know what the old one is make sure you created a new one
before you installed HIS and it has the necessary privileges.
Build your new 2000 or 2003 servers
call them anything you want, I used a naming scheme like msssnahs1 HS for
hot spare1
Make sure the WINS and DNS settings are correct.
Put them in a work group called the same as your domain. Do not add them to
the domain
Install DLC from the Win2k CD or HIS CD bind it to the adapter used for host
connectivity. In my case I used Ethernet for normal user connectivity and
Token Ring for the host FEP connectivity with DLC as the only bound protocol
on that adapter plus no other bindings yours might be different.
Install all the OS patches
Copy HIS and HIS SP's or hot fixes to you new servers. I created a software$
share and just mapped to it from my workstation or sever hosting the
necessary software. I also used it to store the cab files for the exported
printers.
I also made sure all my NT 4 print drivers on the existing servers were from
the NT4 CD. For the most part I use HP LJ4 or Okidata ML320 and generic
printers yours may vary
I ran the printmig utility (latest version) then copied the exported cab
file to my new servers and used printmig to restore the printers there
Their are some other things you might have to do if your servicing non
standard printers. There are q articles on that and additional utilities.
Once you have everything where you need it you need to make sure you have a
current binary version of the true SNA servers cfg file. I created a share
on the working sna servers and backed up the running cfg to that share. Then
copied it to the new servers.
Make sure you know what the SNA server binding names are on the old servers
and how there configed. Screen shots printed out help.
Once the change record was approved and time slot chosen it was pretty
simple to implement
I shut down the existing servers
removed them from the domain
renamed my new servers to the old servers names, changed ip to the old
server ip, then rebooted
added them to the domain, rebooted
Installed HIS on the two new servers along with HIS hot fixes or patches
Use the same HIS service account and PW. Brought up SNA admin
Created my SNA server link service bindings identical to the old servers
The only thing I had to change was those adapter bindings to the old adapter
binding names
I then opened the cfg file I had saved
The whole thing took about 20 minutes for 2 servers, from shutdown till all
SNA server client services restored on the new boxes.
Soon as all the services went active I had users connecting.
Nice thing about it you can create a hot spare and implement quickly should
one server go down. I have batch file with the printmig, export printers
weekly and copy them to a remote server. Same for the cfg file via a batch
except I do that daily plus a cfg text export. Every time I make a change I
create a backup before and after with the post and current dates. I also
create a backup for the might export in a different directory.
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CB9BA280-5B11-4163-B1EE-1A915587DC46@microsoft.com...
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a
reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neil Pike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Quiggley,
What O/S are you running now and what do you want to go to?
What link services are you using? DLC? SDLC? ESCON?
If SDLC/ESCON then what card(s) are you using?
Printing setup?
SNA client used and/or TN3270?
These are just some of the factors that would affect possible upgrade paths,
as well as stuff like available down-time, whether the old and new systems need
to run in parallel etc.
| Quote: | We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions?
|
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:51 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Well, I am just getting going on this and some of these (well most) question
I have no idea. I am going from Win NT 4 SP4 to Win2003. As for down time,
as usual, as little as possible. :-)
"Neil Pike" wrote:
| Quote: | Quiggley,
What O/S are you running now and what do you want to go to?
What link services are you using? DLC? SDLC? ESCON?
If SDLC/ESCON then what card(s) are you using?
Printing setup?
SNA client used and/or TN3270?
These are just some of the factors that would affect possible upgrade paths,
as well as stuff like available down-time, whether the old and new systems need
to run in parallel etc.
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions?
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stan Fry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:43 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Yes you will have to create a new bdc then promote it to pdc so you have a
totally new pdc same for the bdc so in total you would need two additional
machines because it sounds like you not running AD so you need the NT4
domain structure in tact because the 2000/2003 servers only run as domain
controllers under AD.
Stan
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6E881D4A-C406-4D43-AD60-30FBF6B56A82@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | Thanks a bunch for all the info. They are a BDC and PDC. If they don't
need
to be when they are upgrading does it still have an affect on the process?
"Stan Fry" wrote:
I have done this several times quite successfully for 4000 users. If the
servers are not a
PDC and BDC's (like my first two were) then it is fairly straight
forward.
Make sure you know what the existing SNA service account and password
are.
If you do not know what the old one is make sure you created a new one
before you installed HIS and it has the necessary privileges.
Build your new 2000 or 2003 servers
call them anything you want, I used a naming scheme like msssnahs1 HS for
hot spare1
Make sure the WINS and DNS settings are correct.
Put them in a work group called the same as your domain. Do not add them
to
the domain
Install DLC from the Win2k CD or HIS CD bind it to the adapter used for
host
connectivity. In my case I used Ethernet for normal user connectivity and
Token Ring for the host FEP connectivity with DLC as the only bound
protocol
on that adapter plus no other bindings yours might be different.
Install all the OS patches
Copy HIS and HIS SP's or hot fixes to you new servers. I created a
software$
share and just mapped to it from my workstation or sever hosting the
necessary software. I also used it to store the cab files for the
exported
printers.
I also made sure all my NT 4 print drivers on the existing servers were
from
the NT4 CD. For the most part I use HP LJ4 or Okidata ML320 and generic
printers yours may vary
I ran the printmig utility (latest version) then copied the exported cab
file to my new servers and used printmig to restore the printers there
Their are some other things you might have to do if your servicing non
standard printers. There are q articles on that and additional utilities.
Once you have everything where you need it you need to make sure you have
a
current binary version of the true SNA servers cfg file. I created a
share
on the working sna servers and backed up the running cfg to that share.
Then
copied it to the new servers.
Make sure you know what the SNA server binding names are on the old
servers
and how there configed. Screen shots printed out help.
Once the change record was approved and time slot chosen it was pretty
simple to implement
I shut down the existing servers
removed them from the domain
renamed my new servers to the old servers names, changed ip to the old
server ip, then rebooted
added them to the domain, rebooted
Installed HIS on the two new servers along with HIS hot fixes or patches
Use the same HIS service account and PW. Brought up SNA admin
Created my SNA server link service bindings identical to the old servers
The only thing I had to change was those adapter bindings to the old
adapter
binding names
I then opened the cfg file I had saved
The whole thing took about 20 minutes for 2 servers, from shutdown till
all
SNA server client services restored on the new boxes.
Soon as all the services went active I had users connecting.
Nice thing about it you can create a hot spare and implement quickly
should
one server go down. I have batch file with the printmig, export printers
weekly and copy them to a remote server. Same for the cfg file via a
batch
except I do that daily plus a cfg text export. Every time I make a change
I
create a backup before and after with the post and current dates. I also
create a backup for the might export in a different directory.
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CB9BA280-5B11-4163-B1EE-1A915587DC46@microsoft.com...
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to
just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a
reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neil Pike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Quiggley,
| Quote: | Well, I am just getting going on this and some of these (well most) question
I have no idea.
|
Sounds like you need to investigate your existing setup a bit first! I take it you
don't support the existing setup?
| Quote: | I am going from Win NT 4 SP4 to Win2003. As for down time,
as usual, as little as possible. :-)
|
Obviously! But is the existing setup used 24x365 or are there periods of non-use -
e.g. overnight/weekends.
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
L Ring
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:25 am Post subject:
RE: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
I have just completed this upgrade for over 5000 users. I would just make
sure that you realize that the Generic Text print driver changed quite a bit
from NT to Windows 2000. If you have users that are doing formatted printing
you might run into some issues with this. I upgraded our servers from NT to
Windows 2000 first to get any printing issues out of the way and then
upgraded to HIS after that. With regards to printing we made sure that we did
not have any NT drivers or OEM print drivers on the new servers. Once we got
the printing cleaned up then moving to HIS 2000 was a breeze. We have not
upgraded to HIS 2004 yet but that is our next action.
"Quiggley" wrote:
| Quote: | We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:37 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
24x365.
"Neil Pike" wrote:
| Quote: | Quiggley,
Well, I am just getting going on this and some of these (well most) question
I have no idea.
Sounds like you need to investigate your existing setup a bit first! I take it you
don't support the existing setup?
I am going from Win NT 4 SP4 to Win2003. As for down time,
as usual, as little as possible. :-)
Obviously! But is the existing setup used 24x365 or are there periods of non-use -
e.g. overnight/weekends.
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:37 am Post subject:
RE: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
It appears that they have the printing being handled by two other servers
doing just printing. I guess it would be best (possibly required) to upgrade
them too?
"L Ring" wrote:
| Quote: | I have just completed this upgrade for over 5000 users. I would just make
sure that you realize that the Generic Text print driver changed quite a bit
from NT to Windows 2000. If you have users that are doing formatted printing
you might run into some issues with this. I upgraded our servers from NT to
Windows 2000 first to get any printing issues out of the way and then
upgraded to HIS after that. With regards to printing we made sure that we did
not have any NT drivers or OEM print drivers on the new servers. Once we got
the printing cleaned up then moving to HIS 2000 was a breeze. We have not
upgraded to HIS 2004 yet but that is our next action.
"Quiggley" wrote:
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:39 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
I really know nothing about SNA or HIS, where is a good place to start as far
as getting to know it. It's not like you can install it and play with it.
You have to have a mainframe to hook it up to.
"Neil Pike" wrote:
| Quote: | Quiggley,
Well, I am just getting going on this and some of these (well most) question
I have no idea.
Sounds like you need to investigate your existing setup a bit first! I take it you
don't support the existing setup?
I am going from Win NT 4 SP4 to Win2003. As for down time,
as usual, as little as possible. :-)
Obviously! But is the existing setup used 24x365 or are there periods of non-use -
e.g. overnight/weekends.
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quiggley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:49 am Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Actually they are running Active Directory. These new servers will just be
put into that structure. Is that going to have a big affect?
How about the Client End, does this all cause any issues with that? Are
upgrades needed? I am told some are running the "95" vesion still. I assume
that is WAY out of date.
"Stan Fry" wrote:
| Quote: | Yes you will have to create a new bdc then promote it to pdc so you have a
totally new pdc same for the bdc so in total you would need two additional
machines because it sounds like you not running AD so you need the NT4
domain structure in tact because the 2000/2003 servers only run as domain
controllers under AD.
Stan
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6E881D4A-C406-4D43-AD60-30FBF6B56A82@microsoft.com...
Thanks a bunch for all the info. They are a BDC and PDC. If they don't
need
to be when they are upgrading does it still have an affect on the process?
"Stan Fry" wrote:
I have done this several times quite successfully for 4000 users. If the
servers are not a
PDC and BDC's (like my first two were) then it is fairly straight
forward.
Make sure you know what the existing SNA service account and password
are.
If you do not know what the old one is make sure you created a new one
before you installed HIS and it has the necessary privileges.
Build your new 2000 or 2003 servers
call them anything you want, I used a naming scheme like msssnahs1 HS for
hot spare1
Make sure the WINS and DNS settings are correct.
Put them in a work group called the same as your domain. Do not add them
to
the domain
Install DLC from the Win2k CD or HIS CD bind it to the adapter used for
host
connectivity. In my case I used Ethernet for normal user connectivity and
Token Ring for the host FEP connectivity with DLC as the only bound
protocol
on that adapter plus no other bindings yours might be different.
Install all the OS patches
Copy HIS and HIS SP's or hot fixes to you new servers. I created a
software$
share and just mapped to it from my workstation or sever hosting the
necessary software. I also used it to store the cab files for the
exported
printers.
I also made sure all my NT 4 print drivers on the existing servers were
from
the NT4 CD. For the most part I use HP LJ4 or Okidata ML320 and generic
printers yours may vary
I ran the printmig utility (latest version) then copied the exported cab
file to my new servers and used printmig to restore the printers there
Their are some other things you might have to do if your servicing non
standard printers. There are q articles on that and additional utilities.
Once you have everything where you need it you need to make sure you have
a
current binary version of the true SNA servers cfg file. I created a
share
on the working sna servers and backed up the running cfg to that share.
Then
copied it to the new servers.
Make sure you know what the SNA server binding names are on the old
servers
and how there configed. Screen shots printed out help.
Once the change record was approved and time slot chosen it was pretty
simple to implement
I shut down the existing servers
removed them from the domain
renamed my new servers to the old servers names, changed ip to the old
server ip, then rebooted
added them to the domain, rebooted
Installed HIS on the two new servers along with HIS hot fixes or patches
Use the same HIS service account and PW. Brought up SNA admin
Created my SNA server link service bindings identical to the old servers
The only thing I had to change was those adapter bindings to the old
adapter
binding names
I then opened the cfg file I had saved
The whole thing took about 20 minutes for 2 servers, from shutdown till
all
SNA server client services restored on the new boxes.
Soon as all the services went active I had users connecting.
Nice thing about it you can create a hot spare and implement quickly
should
one server go down. I have batch file with the printmig, export printers
weekly and copy them to a remote server. Same for the cfg file via a
batch
except I do that daily plus a cfg text export. Every time I make a change
I
create a backup before and after with the post and current dates. I also
create a backup for the might export in a different directory.
"Quiggley" <Quiggley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CB9BA280-5B11-4163-B1EE-1A915587DC46@microsoft.com...
We are just about to start this journey. I can't find hardly any white
papers or the like that talk about it. Suggestions? Is it better to
just
build the HIS2004 new and move everyone (2000+ users) or is there a
reliable
upgrade path. The servers are very old P166s.
Thoughts or suggestions?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neil Pike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
Quiggley,
That's where you'd be wrong ;-)
The product comes with something called the "Demo SDLC Service". If you configure this,
you can attach LU's etc. to it and "connect" to it from clients just like it was a real
mainframe. It's not a real mainframe app, and just comes back with canned responses, but
it's good enough to test the setup/config of most of HIS, check client comms works,
server fail-overs, upgrade strategy between versions etc.
The supplied books-online are pretty good, but unless you have a mainframe
background/knowledge, some of the terminology/concepts will be alien to you. Might be
worth you getting a day or two's consultancy, if you can find someone local with the
right knowledge, to fast-track your knowledge, set up some servers, and run through
upgrade options.
| Quote: | I really know nothing about SNA or HIS, where is a good place to start as far
as getting to know it. It's not like you can install it and play with it.
You have to have a mainframe to hook it up to.
|
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neil Pike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
That reduces your upgrade options obviously, but it's still possible, especially if
you're allowed to make client changes. Making client config changes would allow you to
build a parallel HIS install and gradually change client configs to use the new setup.
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neil Pike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Moving from SNA 4.0 to HIS2004 |
|
|
If these servers actually run SNA components, then yes, they'll need to be
upgraded too. I always recommend running SNA printing on separate servers anyway -
that's because with the wide variety of printers/drivers out there, the biggest
problem people have with SNA/HIS is usually printing issues. Whilst there are best
practices to reduce these significantly, it's always at the mercy of a dodgy
printer driver taking it down.
If the SNA print services are on separate servers, then even in a worst case
scenario you can recover service by booting the server and you won't affect
anything else - any prints will just be queued whilst the server is booting.
| Quote: | It appears that they have the printing being handled by two other servers
doing just printing. I guess it would be best (possibly required) to upgrade
them too?
|
Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in